Before I really got a handle on my personal success with women, I used to have a few glaring sticking points when it game to learning “game.” I wanted to talk about them to give you guys an idea of where I came from and what I had to break through to start achieving success.
At first I think because of the ‘marketing’ in the pickup community I was always searching and studying products for that “perfect” way to get girls. This led me always to be searching for something that I felt would fit my personality instead of going and figuring out what works for me in real life. This plagued me for a long time until I decided to scrap everything and build up what I knew from the ground up.
Another one of my huge sticking points when I started was the fact that a lot of the stuff out there on pick-up seemed really flashy. I didn’t live in down town LA and there certainly weren’t a lot of bleach blonde actresses I could go around negging. Simply put I couldn’t’ relate to a lot of the guys out there teaching this stuff. Being all natural with out a solid game plan didn’t help either.
Sure it all sounded good on paper and I read all about these amazing success stories but a lot of it didn’t really fit into my life. It didn’t seem real to an average everyday guy. I was just an electrical engineer not a flashy club guy. Nor did I ever want to become a flashy PUAHHHH.
The tipping point. I met Edge and we really decided to scrap everything and start over. Build our own version of success biased on the principles of what worked. Not what worked for other people but the principles behind what they where doing. We started to look at what worked and talked about why it did. We backwards engineered it and started from ground zero. This allowed us to create a way to study for ourselves that made it so we could create our own personal way to game. Not any guru’s way but our own. We did and let me tell you although Edge and I went through all the same steps we created for ourselves we ended up in two different places.
We both achieved success in our own ways and game completely differently.
My point is there is no right way and everyone wants something different but still all the people out there teaching this stuff think that there are only a few certain direct ways to achieve success and that simply isn’t true.
My question to you is what are your sticking points when it comes to learning game?
What are your problems with the courses and boot camps out there?
Why aren’t you getting the success you want?
What are the problems holding you back?
Let me know. Leave comments and feel free to email us and we will try to get back to you.
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{ 26 comments… read them below or add one }
My question to you is what are your sticking points when it comes to learning game?
Keeping conversations going, thinking hot women are out of my league, handling dry spots when I sometimes go “0 for 100″ with women 8.5 or better and keeping from getting discouraged, comparing myself to other dudes that are better looking and/or taller (im around 5’6).
What are your problems with the courses and boot camps out there?
Tons of problems. Quality of teaching is usually very poor and inarticulate, bootcamps where they do not demo in the field, instructors that just tell you “have confidence” or “its inner game” but never fully explain how to work on your situation. I have been to four bootcamps run by top groups and most are very disappointing with the quality of teaching. To further complicate things they charge for everything – ie if the bootcamp did not work for you than they offer a 1 on 1 for addition $. Lets face it, if you have a good product you will back it and work with your customer to reach satisfaction. I feel like I am being bleed when I work with them.
Why aren’t you getting the success you want?
Its hard to say. I just cannot seem to get dates or numbers from 8.5 or above women. They seem to like me as a friend, I escalate, I banter well, make them laugh, dress well but they do not think of me as a sexual mate. Being short is a problem. You can tell me over and over again its inner game but you will get rejected much more frequently due to womens preference for taller men. Also age is a factor. I am in my early 40s and women (say 25 to 35) do not seem to care for an older man (eventhough I look 35) no matter what I do. I have a number of friends my age in the same boat.
What are the problems holding you back?
Lack of success under my belt (pardon the pun). If I could have some success than it would work wonders but I just cant seem to get there. I have been at this for almost 5 years now and I cannot seem to get a date, number,ect from a woman more than a 6 or 7. Its really frustrating.
My question to you is what are your sticking points when it comes to learning game?
Keeping conversations going, thinking hot women are out of my league, handling dry spots when I sometimes go “0 for 100″ with women 8.5 or better and keeping from getting discouraged, comparing myself to other dudes that are better looking and/or taller (im around 5’6).
What are your problems with the courses and boot camps out there?
Tons of problems. Quality of teaching is usually very poor and inarticulate, bootcamps where they do not demo in the field, instructors that just tell you “have confidence” or “its inner game” but never fully explain how to work on your situation. I have been to four bootcamps run by top groups and most are very disappointing with the quality of teaching. To further complicate things they charge for everything – ie if the bootcamp did not work for you than they offer a 1 on 1 for addition $. Lets face it, if you have a good product you will back it and work with your customer to reach satisfaction. I feel like I am being bleed when I work with them.
Why aren’t you getting the success you want?
Its hard to say. I just cannot seem to get dates or numbers from 8.5 or above women. They seem to like me as a friend, I escalate, I banter well, make them laugh, dress well but they do not think of me as a sexual mate. Being short is a problem. You can tell me over and over again its inner game but you will get rejected much more frequently due to womens preference for taller men. Also age is a factor. I am in my early 40s and women (say 25 to 35) do not seem to care for an older man (eventhough I look 35) no matter what I do. I have a number of friends my age in the same boat.
What are the problems holding you back?
Lack of success under my belt (pardon the pun). If I could have some success than it would work wonders but I just cant seem to get there. I have been at this for almost 5 years now and I cannot seem to get a date, number,ect from a woman more than a 6 or 7. Its really frustrating.
Hey brad thanks for the detailed response.
First off I wanted to say that the height thing is definitely not an issue. It is an issue ONLY becuase you believe it is. (I am 5’6″ but I don’t put weight on it and people are shocked when I tell them how tall I am and they tell me they thought I was taller) I think its a mental perception.
It sounds like your biggest sticking point is coming from how you are framing everything. If you frame these girls as out of your league then you are going to have problems. Do you have problems with girls that you think are in or below your league?
I think its hard and a bad path to compare yourself to other dudes, sure I do it too and its good to take stock of where you are in life at times. I think it comes down to being true to yourself and what you do with your life and draw your self worth from that. It gives you power. I could probably go on for hours about how to do this maybe I will write a post.
I agree that age is a factor but you just have to search for girls that are into it. One of my good friend is a drop dead gorgeous 24 year old who is obsessed with older men. I can’t figure out why but they are out there you just have to look.
Again I can say definitively that it is not a height issue just becuase you are the same height as me.
I also agree with you on the quality of a lot of the guys teaching this stuff. I’ve met some of them and I think mostly they are a bunch of women haters that can’t pull or if they do they certainly can’t hold a relationship with the girl.
I also think they teach a bunch on inaccurate stuff that isn’t really applicable. Sure the theory is great but it they never really translated to the real world.
You definitely will get there its just a matter of figuring out why it isn’t working yet. Don’t give up.
Something that I just thought of is since we are number rating everything, where do you see yourself on a 1 to 10 scale. Not necessarily in terms of looks but in terms of looks, fashion, lifestyle, conversation skill.. all averaged together especially with lifestyle weighted? (lifestyle as in how happy are you with your job and what you do with your life)
Hey brad thanks for the detailed response.
First off I wanted to say that the height thing is definitely not an issue. It is an issue ONLY becuase you believe it is. (I am 5’6″ but I don’t put weight on it and people are shocked when I tell them how tall I am and they tell me they thought I was taller) I think its a mental perception.
It sounds like your biggest sticking point is coming from how you are framing everything. If you frame these girls as out of your league then you are going to have problems. Do you have problems with girls that you think are in or below your league?
I think its hard and a bad path to compare yourself to other dudes, sure I do it too and its good to take stock of where you are in life at times. I think it comes down to being true to yourself and what you do with your life and draw your self worth from that. It gives you power. I could probably go on for hours about how to do this maybe I will write a post.
I agree that age is a factor but you just have to search for girls that are into it. One of my good friend is a drop dead gorgeous 24 year old who is obsessed with older men. I can’t figure out why but they are out there you just have to look.
Again I can say definitively that it is not a height issue just becuase you are the same height as me.
I also agree with you on the quality of a lot of the guys teaching this stuff. I’ve met some of them and I think mostly they are a bunch of women haters that can’t pull or if they do they certainly can’t hold a relationship with the girl.
I also think they teach a bunch on inaccurate stuff that isn’t really applicable. Sure the theory is great but it they never really translated to the real world.
You definitely will get there its just a matter of figuring out why it isn’t working yet. Don’t give up.
Something that I just thought of is since we are number rating everything, where do you see yourself on a 1 to 10 scale. Not necessarily in terms of looks but in terms of looks, fashion, lifestyle, conversation skill.. all averaged together especially with lifestyle weighted? (lifestyle as in how happy are you with your job and what you do with your life)
Hey Legend,
Thank you for the honest answer. Great question. Where do I rate myself? Well I would give myself the following:
Physical looks: 7.5 (I get rated on hot or not anywhere from 6 to 9.5)
Fashion: 9 (I dress very well – think George Clooney stylish, classy blazers, cool shirts, great Italian leather shoes and boots)
Lifestyle: 6 (I own a company so I work alot but I do travel often and go out on the town, boating, events,ect.)
Conversation Skill: a 7 on opening but a 9 if I open well and comfortable. So I would say an 8.
An average of 7.5 to low 8 I would figure.
Hey Legend,
Thank you for the honest answer. Great question. Where do I rate myself? Well I would give myself the following:
Physical looks: 7.5 (I get rated on hot or not anywhere from 6 to 9.5)
Fashion: 9 (I dress very well – think George Clooney stylish, classy blazers, cool shirts, great Italian leather shoes and boots)
Lifestyle: 6 (I own a company so I work alot but I do travel often and go out on the town, boating, events,ect.)
Conversation Skill: a 7 on opening but a 9 if I open well and comfortable. So I would say an 8.
An average of 7.5 to low 8 I would figure.
I appreciate your comments and I guess for you height has not been factor. However it has for me. I have been rejected straight to my face too many times to count. Online, I changed my profile giving a height of anywhere from 5’10 to 6’2 and guess what? I had tons of responses – same profile, photos,ect. just a different height. So how can you say it is not a factor? Unless you know some ways of “short man game” that I do not have, then I can understand. I do about 20 approaches a week on average (between night and day), do the online thing, speed dating, wine tasting events, ect – I cant get a very attractive woman to even give me a number and I have studied a ton of this game stuff since 2004 – 5 years. I am just lost.
I appreciate your comments and I guess for you height has not been factor. However it has for me. I have been rejected straight to my face too many times to count. Online, I changed my profile giving a height of anywhere from 5’10 to 6’2 and guess what? I had tons of responses – same profile, photos,ect. just a different height. So how can you say it is not a factor? Unless you know some ways of “short man game” that I do not have, then I can understand. I do about 20 approaches a week on average (between night and day), do the online thing, speed dating, wine tasting events, ect – I cant get a very attractive woman to even give me a number and I have studied a ton of this game stuff since 2004 – 5 years. I am just lost.
I mean height is a factor if you let it be a factor… Sure height gives you an edge but isn’t a limiting factor for you getting a girl who is say 5’10″.
Sure it will help online where everyone is being judged much more harshly. (I hate online dating) Sure it helps right off the bat. Its a benefit but you could be a tall with no game and a short ugly guy with lots of game can out game you.
Basically if you can make sense of my ramblings it is a factor if you make it a factor but it should no way hold back your game. Sure there will be a small number of women who it will be a deal breaker with but there will be plenty of tall hot women where it doesn’t matter if the rest of your game is good.
You’ve partially answered your own questions: “I cannot seem to get a date, number,ect from a woman more than a 6 or 7. Its really frustrating.” Yet you rate yourself as 7.5
Sure the community preaches that you can use tactics and techniques to get girls who would “be out of your league” and yes it works with tons of practice but if you look at most of the guru’s they certainly can’t keep girls. I find it crazy how most of them get girls for the night but can’t keep them around. I hang out with the same ones for months if not years. My point is that to really bring up your confidence where you can get girls that are 10′s you need to work on moving your life up to where your average comes up to a 10. And I don’t mean that in a just say it to yourself kinda way and then it will work its more complicated.
Clearly you are having some problems they may be a simple fix or it may be difficult, I can’t help you with out more detailed information and watching exactly what you do in real life. I am sure they can be worked out though. I
Some of it may be to do with the ton of crappy misinformation out in the community and many people take as rules when it was written by some guy who has no success with women or has a weird fucked up version of success (most of the guru’s).
I don’t know exactly what your doing but just saying you go out and doing 20 approaches doesn’t mean your progressing. The way I look at it is like its going to the gym. Are you going to the gym and lifting the 20 lb dumbbell over and over again? Doing easy sets and not pushing yourself? Or each time are you going out and forcing yourself out of your comfort zone and trying new things?
If your good at opening maybe your not building enough investment or enough deep attraction.. I just don’t know… It sounds to me that you need some coaching from someone that gets it but not from another “bootcamp” those aren’t personalized.
Maybe I do know some “short man game” haha I think its that my ego and confidence is 8′ tall well my ego is probably 1000′ tall.
I mean height is a factor if you let it be a factor… Sure height gives you an edge but isn’t a limiting factor for you getting a girl who is say 5’10″.
Sure it will help online where everyone is being judged much more harshly. (I hate online dating) Sure it helps right off the bat. Its a benefit but you could be a tall with no game and a short ugly guy with lots of game can out game you.
Basically if you can make sense of my ramblings it is a factor if you make it a factor but it should no way hold back your game. Sure there will be a small number of women who it will be a deal breaker with but there will be plenty of tall hot women where it doesn’t matter if the rest of your game is good.
You’ve partially answered your own questions: “I cannot seem to get a date, number,ect from a woman more than a 6 or 7. Its really frustrating.” Yet you rate yourself as 7.5
Sure the community preaches that you can use tactics and techniques to get girls who would “be out of your league” and yes it works with tons of practice but if you look at most of the guru’s they certainly can’t keep girls. I find it crazy how most of them get girls for the night but can’t keep them around. I hang out with the same ones for months if not years. My point is that to really bring up your confidence where you can get girls that are 10′s you need to work on moving your life up to where your average comes up to a 10. And I don’t mean that in a just say it to yourself kinda way and then it will work its more complicated.
Clearly you are having some problems they may be a simple fix or it may be difficult, I can’t help you with out more detailed information and watching exactly what you do in real life. I am sure they can be worked out though. I
Some of it may be to do with the ton of crappy misinformation out in the community and many people take as rules when it was written by some guy who has no success with women or has a weird fucked up version of success (most of the guru’s).
I don’t know exactly what your doing but just saying you go out and doing 20 approaches doesn’t mean your progressing. The way I look at it is like its going to the gym. Are you going to the gym and lifting the 20 lb dumbbell over and over again? Doing easy sets and not pushing yourself? Or each time are you going out and forcing yourself out of your comfort zone and trying new things?
If your good at opening maybe your not building enough investment or enough deep attraction.. I just don’t know… It sounds to me that you need some coaching from someone that gets it but not from another “bootcamp” those aren’t personalized.
Maybe I do know some “short man game” haha I think its that my ego and confidence is 8′ tall well my ego is probably 1000′ tall.
You say you go out and do approaches, how long do they last?
You say you go out and do approaches, how long do they last?
oh yeah send me an email via the contact button and I will give you a way to work on your inner game that will work.
oh yeah send me an email via the contact button and I will give you a way to work on your inner game that will work.
The funny thing with the height factor is that its just not with taller women (I actually rarely go after tall women – I tried that for about a year two years ago doing about 500 to 1000 approaches/sets and it was a total lost cause) that I have the problem – its with all women. Women just seem to want a taller guy no matter what I have tried. I have used just about every routine that Lovesystems has, I have tried social-circle, ect and its just really tough. I do rate myself a 7.5 but that is mostly (if you look at the weighted average) because of my work. I rate myself a 7.5 in looks but that is due to my height and you tell me that is not a factor? Also I thought all this game was supposed to help a guy “date out of his league” well if that is not true then does game not really work for average looking guys? I am really confused here. I will contact you on email and if you can help me, that would be great. Thank you for the correspondence.
The funny thing with the height factor is that its just not with taller women (I actually rarely go after tall women – I tried that for about a year two years ago doing about 500 to 1000 approaches/sets and it was a total lost cause) that I have the problem – its with all women. Women just seem to want a taller guy no matter what I have tried. I have used just about every routine that Lovesystems has, I have tried social-circle, ect and its just really tough. I do rate myself a 7.5 but that is mostly (if you look at the weighted average) because of my work. I rate myself a 7.5 in looks but that is due to my height and you tell me that is not a factor? Also I thought all this game was supposed to help a guy “date out of his league” well if that is not true then does game not really work for average looking guys? I am really confused here. I will contact you on email and if you can help me, that would be great. Thank you for the correspondence.
I’m average height, about 5′ 10″, and can’t relate to being a short Pick-Up Artist I know Sean Stephenson is and he’s definitely a short Pick-Up Artist. I’d suggest Googling him and watching some of his speeches. He’s amazing and he’s under four feet tall in a wheelchair and has a noticeable physical deformity. Sean is also pulling 10s consistently. I think it has a lot to do with Inner Game. As the saying goes “If you think you can or you can’t, then you’re right.”
I’m average height, about 5′ 10″, and can’t relate to being a short Pick-Up Artist I know Sean Stephenson is and he’s definitely a short Pick-Up Artist. I’d suggest Googling him and watching some of his speeches. He’s amazing and he’s under four feet tall in a wheelchair and has a noticeable physical deformity. Sean is also pulling 10s consistently. I think it has a lot to do with Inner Game. As the saying goes “If you think you can or you can’t, then you’re right.”
yeah…. he consistently takes 10s home, lays some playboy playmate on his bed just plops on top of her and goes to town…yeah consistently hahha that is what he is doing hahahhaha um….. no wait got to keep the crazy stories going so …… yeah that’s what he does
yeah…. he consistently takes 10s home, lays some playboy playmate on his bed just plops on top of her and goes to town…yeah consistently hahha that is what he is doing hahahhaha um….. no wait got to keep the crazy stories going so …… yeah that’s what he does
Brad, while you aren’t that tall by any stretch of the imagination, I have seen plenty of guys who have gotten laid at that height. You are using it as a limiting factor and excuse, do women prefer taller guys sure, but you need to do things that show her you are someone she will want to bang. Your using it as an excuse, sounds more like an inner game issue.
Brad, while you aren’t that tall by any stretch of the imagination, I have seen plenty of guys who have gotten laid at that height. You are using it as a limiting factor and excuse, do women prefer taller guys sure, but you need to do things that show her you are someone she will want to bang. Your using it as an excuse, sounds more like an inner game issue.
@Legend LOL Very funny yes and hard to imagine.
He’s spoken before about how people try and put him down and scoff at his successes in life. But, since he has several best-selling books (that aren’t just about scoring with women) and is personal friends with Bill Clinton I think we can at least agree that he has more going for him in life than 90% of the master PUAs like Mystery and David DeAngelo put together.
I find it odd that you would mock when I was was trying to help prove your point and help out Brad at the same time. But it’s no big deal. Keep enjoying your blog Legend.
@Legend LOL Very funny yes and hard to imagine.
He’s spoken before about how people try and put him down and scoff at his successes in life. But, since he has several best-selling books (that aren’t just about scoring with women) and is personal friends with Bill Clinton I think we can at least agree that he has more going for him in life than 90% of the master PUAs like Mystery and David DeAngelo put together.
I find it odd that you would mock when I was was trying to help prove your point and help out Brad at the same time. But it’s no big deal. Keep enjoying your blog Legend.
MrSmooth I am not mocking you or what your doing. I thank you for your comments.
I am mocking Seans tales of consistently closing 10s. Sure he has best-selling books and I have absolutely no doubt that he is very successful in some of his endeavors but I don’t think he is a person to learn from when it comes to scoring consistently with girls. Unless you want to model him and write a bunch of books and score with girls that come to his seminars.
Because there is simply no way he goes into a bar or club and does it consistently. Sure maybe it happened once but like many people in this industry a lot of what they claim is bullshit. That’s what I mock and if he wants to say that he can consistently do it then I invite him to prove it to me in real life becuase I think he is full of shit. I will prove my skills in real life and I will bet money I can beat his “consistently”
MrSmooth I am not mocking you or what your doing. I thank you for your comments.
I am mocking Seans tales of consistently closing 10s. Sure he has best-selling books and I have absolutely no doubt that he is very successful in some of his endeavors but I don’t think he is a person to learn from when it comes to scoring consistently with girls. Unless you want to model him and write a bunch of books and score with girls that come to his seminars.
Because there is simply no way he goes into a bar or club and does it consistently. Sure maybe it happened once but like many people in this industry a lot of what they claim is bullshit. That’s what I mock and if he wants to say that he can consistently do it then I invite him to prove it to me in real life becuase I think he is full of shit. I will prove my skills in real life and I will bet money I can beat his “consistently”