In Legend’s most recent post, he said, “The goal is to get into a conversation with a girl regardless of the latest trend in the community.”
I started to write a reply to his post, but after a while I realized that this response was long enough to be a post, so here it is:
I think the “seduction community” is kind of a funny concept. Really, the community started out as a collective of guys who wanted to improve their skills with women, but wanted to avoid the stigma society places on a guy asking for help with women. And although there were a few products out there, most of the help guys received was from each other.
These days, pick-up material is well developed. There are hundreds of products available on pick-up, dating, relationships, seduction, etc. And if anyone new wants to break into the market, they have to debunk all of the other excellent material that has come out before it and convince you that there’s is better.
The whole “natural” thing is just the new way to market a product.
There were some guys going around teaching Mystery Method verbatim, but then criticizing Mystery because his method isn’t natural and there’s is…
At the heart of the matter, I notice all that stuff, but I try to ignore it.
Frankly, I study this stuff for one reason and one reason only: for my own self-improvement. So that I can have better relationships with the type of women I truly want.
And for that reason, I think it is ludicrous to invest in any method that has no real discernible structure or way to measure back on what’s been accomplished. At the same time, I think it’s a ludicrous way to live if the method does not take into account your emotional state or hers and is simply a mechanical set of steps to perform.
I believe that ultimately a superior product will combine what is being taught in the “natural” schools as well as what made the original “routine-based” schools so great.
In my next post, I’m going to explore the trends of the “seduction community” and their pros and cons.
But for now, in the interest of learning, I shut my ears off as soon as I hear the instructor on one program bashing another method (whether it’s implicit or explicit). I believe it is best to experience the different paradigms presented by each instructor through taking action in the real world and then forming an opinion.
If you just follow the latest trend, you’re just following marketing instead of your own self-improvement…
Thoughts?
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{ 2 comments… read them below or add one }
I agree with what you said.
The seduction community actually started out as a bunch of guys posting on the original ASF group back in the 90s. Nobody there ever though about charging for anything, they were mostly friends and wings trying to figure out how to get results.
However, then some douchebags (I have no better words for those) discovered that they can hit men where it hurts the most (success with women, or lack thereof) and make this into a multimillion dollar business. Every self proclaimed MPUA created his own method, while backstabbing others, trying to sell useless CDs and bootcamps to clueless and desperate men.
I miss what the community was in the past. Just a bunch of people exchanging ideas and trying to be good. These days it turns men into social robots:
“Hey man, I saw this HB9 and I knew I needed to SARGE her, so I OPENED HER, DHV’d myself, but her BS and was high and there were OBSTACLES and I needed to NEG her. Then I started some KINO until her BT was high enough so that I could #CLOSE her!
It’s more like a cult worshiping guys like Mystery, TD and others. Pathetic.
It’s true. At the same time, I don’t want to alienate anyone here because a) I used to subscribe heavily into the terminology and b) every man who’s here is here because he wants to be better with women and he’s trying to find the best way possible.
Actually, beyond that – this website discusses/uses a lot of this terminology because it has been widely adopted.
I say that because I want to be clear that I see pros and cons to the community and the linguo.
But what you’re talking about, at the heart of it, is the propogation of sub-par products, mediocre self-proclaimed gurus and taking advantage of men wanting to improve themselves. I think that it is unfortunate, but I am not one to complain without a solution in mind.
And that solution is all of us here. All of us on this website. All of us who want this to be something better than what it is. I have a lot of appreciation and respect for the readers of this site and with every comment that goes up, it gives me hope that we can build something better than what has existed before.
I think that men should be able to have great, deep, insightful resources to improve their skills with women. I think that men should be able to have other men that they can discuss dating/relationship issues with freely and openly. This is a great thing and it makes society better because it makes men better.
The problem, as I see it, is that the better alternative hasn’t come to fruition just yet. But it will… only a matter of time.