Edge – Rejecting the Seduction Community – You are not a Bottom-Feeder

Nice… hahahaha

Good shit, bud. Way to be. I feel pretty confident that most of the guys here are looking for the same method of improvement as you.

Well Bravo, Dorothy. You woke up and decided it’s time to change the cat litter. Ok. You succesfully bitched about it. Sprinkled some indignant whining on for flavor… Now what are you going to DO about it? Honestly, this is three posts in the making and I’m sorry to say that the awakening of Edge is a bit, well, dull, maybe?

You’re in a unique position to actually have an effect here, so clean off the mascara running down your face, find some way to temporarily assuage the simmering guilt you feel for your part in helping take disgusting trickery wide.

Big deal. There were scumbags before cliff’s list and there are people working the online dating scene in ways that would make TD squirm.

YES, you give decent lip service to wanting change and improvement but it’s all swimming in this rank TONE. And tone, my once sharp friend, is the “body language” of the internet. Back it up and use your skills. Seriously.

Rather than waste one (or more) posts proclaiming what’s pretty obvious to everyone, GRAB this golden opportunity, man. Lots of malleable young eyeballs are still (hopefully) hanging on your words as a source for their next action. Yes, they came to you because they wanted ‘action’ but now, like it or not, you may be (gulp) in a quasi-mentor role, and you just about lost them all by sobering up and leaving the party – without cleaning up your mess.

GAME US, Edge! Game us for good! RE-FRAME this sorry ‘seduction’ black hole and GUIDE us to a place of deeper respect for ourselves and the ladies who
will be lucky enough to be safely (and consentually) shown a great time with one of the GOOD guys, from the NEW ORDER of confident, playful catches.

Where’s your head, man? Yes it stinks. Yes you’re in a unique position to smell MOST of it from where you post up there. You’re also in a perfect position to start spreading some decent soil and a few seeds. Park the ego and give the community a leader, not just another slimebag who finally realizes it. Change yourself, one step at a time, and document it. I guarantee you’ll make at least a few good men.

Shit stinks. But it’s also a very powerful fertilizer. Are you taking your toys and going home? Or are you going to stick around with your little tractors and help us grow something?

With respect framed by high expectation,
maxwellhouse

Nice! I agree,

This seems to happen to most guys who get all gun ho about the “community” and to me is just a natural progression of the learning process. You’ve simply peaked to a level where you knowledge base is pretty much full and are now assessing how full or not full of shit all of this stuff really is…

But here’s thing, however ridiculous all these seduction techniques and tactics may sound, you’ll have to admit that on their basic fundamental levels they do create attraction. Sure routines are pretty dumb, but really aren’t most guys naturally good with women, guys who have their lives together, also good at doing their own personal routines when talking with women?

This kind of reminds me of guys like David Wygant who will deny to the bitter end that he is NOT a pick up artist and goes to great lengths to make fun of the puaas. However, if you read and watch his stuff, he is teaching a lot of the same fundamental techniques as the self proclaimed pick up artists!

In my opinion, the fundamentals of seduction will always be the same, regardless of whatever semantics you are using.

Maxwell,

You’re totally right. I agree and I respect you laid it out there exactly as you meant it, man to man. I mean that, you have my respect.

And I’m going to speak to what you said…

In terms of tone, yeah, I feel you. And when I wrote this, let me give you where I was mentally.

Legend and I started this blog in… June 2008 I think. And we entered into it in partnership. We had a vision of where we wanted to be and what we want to bring to men who want to improve their lives with women.

We have a partnership. And for the past three months, I had put that partnership on the back burner. I had put the community and this blog on the back burner.

But it wasn’t because I was slacking off… it was because I had this nagging knot in my stomach eating away at me. I couldn’t put my feeling on what it was, but I will talk about what I realize it is in a moment.

All the meanwhile, Legend was wondering a couple things… First, what happened to Edge? Where is he!?

Yeah, I mean, I’d toss up a post here and there, but I was not in the mental zone I used to be. And I felt terrible about the fact that it was like I left Legend holding the bag and I’m just… not really there.

The thing that had been giving me the knot in my stomach was that building up PuE in the direction it was going was out of integrity for me. Not in the moralistic sense – I am ALL for men improving skills with women.

But the fact is that a lot of this site’s traffic has been generated from lay reports and using community terms. If I could go back and do it over again, I would have presented everything different.

So be it… like you said, wipe off the mascara.

The truth is that I love what we have built here so far (me, Legend and our excellent community of readers). Our readers ARE good men who want to improve themselves and be THE MAN. Everybody wants to be the man.

So when I wrote this… I wrote this with the intent that I was going to shake things up where they need to be.

If it offends people, fine – I wanted to see what they had to say. If people agreed with it, fine – I wanted to see what they had to say too.

The big picture is that, as you said, this site is a place we can talk about this. And I will… I am not turning my back on the site. Instead, I am going to take it to another level. I am going to candidly, CONSTRUCTIVELY talk about where I am and build this into an even stronger community, where we all ultimately get what we want…

And beyond women, I believe that is being “the man.” More to come.

To Matt Savage – I agree with you… My feeling is that we all, as men, should take ownership of this area of our lives as men who want to be the best men we can be.

Not pick up artists, but great men who are great with women AND great men in the world.

I will be back to writing up consistently and we’ll dig deep and create something BETTER in this arena… something that has not yet existed yet.

I agree that the fundamentals will always be the same. But the paradigm… we can create a better paradigm.

Edge,

As it is written, so shall it be done. If you rebuild it, we will come.

I look forward to watching new life on the Edge.

Rock.
-Maxwell

I don’t agree. A lot of the “tricking” that is done in the beginning is part of the “fake it til you make it” strategy. Style, Mystery, and others don’t recommend continuing to fake it forever. It’s just that as a newbie, you don’t have the fun exciting life (yet) or the hot pivot chick (yet) or the massive skills (yet). As you work on the long-term goals, they want you to experience some of the success from which you can build confidence. As you swap out what is fake, you can replace it with what is real as you get better.

We’d all like to BECOME a high valued man overnight, but real value takes time to build. And nobody should deny themselves the learning experience of pretending to be something, in order to become it for real someday.

I think to some extent the fake it to you make it strategy is good. I agree with you Sly but I personally think there has to be some balance. I am sure edge has his own opinion on it.

“And I am not going to do a routine to get myself into a woman’s pants.”

Thank you.

When I see videos of Mystery running his routines I don’t think of an attractive, confident man. I think of a parrot who’s found that squawking out a few key phrases pleases his owner and gets him some nuts.

In my opinion, until you feel like you’re a confident, attractive man you will never be one no matter how many lines you can parrot out to make you seem that way.
Unchumpify

“I don’t agree. A lot of the “tricking” that is done in the beginning is part of the “fake it til you make it” strategy. Style, Mystery, and others don’t recommend continuing to fake it forever.”

In one of the first (if not the first) episodes of The Pickup Artist Mystery the experienced, great pickup artist went into a club to show his students “how it’s done”. He and his friends proceeded to parrot out the same old lines and routines, showing off how great they were. “Fake it till you make it” is a horrible strategy in this case. What’s the point of “making it” if on the inside you still feel like a worthless, unattractive person who is forced to use others’ routines and fake lines to get anywhere with a woman? Aren’t you interesting enough to keep up a conversation without using someone else’s lies? Does that really make you feel good?

“It’s just that as a newbie, you don’t have the fun exciting life (yet) or the hot pivot chick (yet) or the massive skills (yet). As you work on the long-term goals, they want you to experience some of the success from which you can build confidence. As you swap out what is fake, you can replace it with what is real as you get better.”

From this part of your comment it seems like you think you have to be great with women and that you need women to have a fun and exciting life. What a bad mindset. Who says that all of your exciting and interesting experiences have to stem from getting laid? Go traveling, do interesting and new things with your friends, do exciting things that don’t involve a vagina. You don’t need to swap out what is fake because you don’t need to be fake in the first place.

Oribi -

Thank you… couldn’t have said it better myself and that’s exactly the kind of thing I was referencing.

If someone is trully using it as a fake it till you make it, then that’s not a terrible thing IF:

1) They are working heavily on their inner game.
2) They are working heavily on getting clear on what they really want from themselves, life and relationships.
3) They are clear on the dynamics of why a particular “line” or “routine” works.
4) Their intent is to get off the canned stuff as soon as they can, as opposed to trying to perfect their delivery of canned stuff.

I have a friend who is absolutely pathetic with women. At first I started giving him gentle suggestions — don’t hold your beer defensively in front of you, don’t bob your head in and out when you’re talking to a girl — and then as he started to become more desperate, I started telling him there are books you can read and websites that will help you out with women. He refused; he wanted to do things his way and he wants to find a woman who responds to that. (“But,” I would always respond, “‘Can I buy you a beer?’ and ‘Do you want to dance?’ and ‘I think you’re really hot’ clearly aren’t working…”)

Cut to six months later. My boy reeks of desperation, it’s written all over his face, and it comes across in every interaction with women. He isn’t a lost hope at this point, but it’s getting bad, and he’s finally willing to borrow some of the materials I’ve bought.

Which ones am I going to lend him first? The Style and Mystery stuff, as much as I despise it. Failure begets failure, and success begets success, and he needs something he can apply quickly to provide little victories — getting a phone number, a date, a kiss — so that he can start on the heavy lifting and get himself to natural game. I hate all the indirect canned routines, but I can see how it can be a necessary starting point. But the important thing is, is that someone evolve past that as soon as possible.

Dave Martin

Work on inner game, building a foundation on shifting sand is energy wasted, besides it has so many other benefits besides gaming women. like life. Yes i know this is a shock……… that the game isnt life,……. until it becomes the life you morph into, then you are whole secure grounded complete and satisfied with yourself and can pull too. wow! what a package. not a shell on the sand with technique, but a rock solid foundation you can build anything on………….

IMHO

Hey Dave Martin,

I actually wrote a long response to your comment a week ago, then accidentally closed the window and lost it.

My concise response to what you said is that I agree with you, though he is going to get a better experience because he has you around to keep him grounded. And although it is a personal journey, having you there to interpret the stuff may cut years off of his learning curve.

In my opinion, I think what happens a lot of the time is that a guy stumbles on the material. At first they’re skeptical, but then they start reading it and can really identify with what the author is talking about. They start to think, “This guy really gets me! And since he has such an understanding of where I’m at, his solution will work for me!” Then he starts reading all of the fantastic things that will happen to him once he ‘gets good’. “Oh wow,” he thinks and his eyes fill with stars.

And the gurus are more than happy to keep you “high” on hopes and possibilities, promising that their newest product will deliver untold fortunes.

The concepts and ideas are useful, but they still need to be CONTEMPLATED by the consumer, not just blindly obeyed.

I’m basically echoing what you’re saying though. I think we feel the same way about the whole thing.