I couldn’t come up with a good name for the post, but this is an exchange between me and someone else who’s studied pick-up for a while.  I figure since I took the time to write a response, I might as well share it with everyone here (names/locations changed, and clipped out some details):

Friday night I checked out a piano bar. The piano man was magnificent! He got the whole crowd singing. I was right there, next to the piano, singing my heart out. Along with a half dozen young girls. I estimated that they were either in their late teens (possibly jailbait) or early twenties. In other words, at least thirty years younger than me. I flirted with them during the singing, but did not expect anything to come of it.

During the singing, one of the girls — in my opinion, the most attractive one -- approached me and asked me my name. What a sign of interest! I did not engage her in conversation; that would have been an overly abrupt shift from the singing, which we were all enjoying. And the piano man never took a break! But I did get her name.

As she was about to leave, I found a piece of paper, and wrote down my name and cell phone number. I said I would be at the beach the next day with my friends.

I did not feel it was right to ask for her phone number..

For several reasons: She kissed me and said, “I really have to go.” She seemed to be in an awful hurry to leave. Her interest in me seemed to be the result of the joyful singing of the moment, or her possibly being drunk. In addition to her being much younger than me.

I recently read that my favorite seduction guru, —— of ——–, says he never asks for a woman’s phone number, because that usually results in nothing. But if a woman asks for his phone number, he gives it to her, knowing that this is likely to be the real thing. In this particular case, it was the woman who asked me for my name, but it was I who asked for the phone number. I’m wondering what you think of ——’s philosophy.

In my situation, there was no conversation, other than an exchange of names, and it was the woman who said “I need to go.” So I am wondering if you thought that it was a mistake for me not to ask for her phone number.

Anyway, the woman said she would text my cellphone.. I have never sent a text message, and do not know how to do it (though I did not tell her that), and so I told her it would be better to call me. As I expected, I did not hear from her.

Possible lessons:

1. Make sure I always have business cards with me in the future.

2. Consider being more assertive in asking for the woman’s phone number. Despite what —— says.

3. Learn text messaging.

4. Get past the belief that a 20-year-old girl is too young for a 53-year-old man. The belief that she is “too young” for me becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The belief that she is old enough can also become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I need more self-confidence.

Edge:

You don’t need to focus on things like how old she is or the difference in your age.  As long as she’s 18 or over, she’s legal and you don’t need to be concerned with her age.  It’s up to her to decide whether or not she likes you, not you.

In other words, your attention doesn’t need to be on making her like you.  That means, if you want to show interest, show interest.  Give her your number.  Talk to her.  Your interest is nothing to be ashamed of.

The story sounds as if you’re focused on acting cool (by thinking about whether or not you should exchange numbers without a special ‘technique’, by not talking when you’re singing).  The way I see it, you were having a good time and comfortable singing and spending time with a bunch of women.  So, this attractive woman sees you and she thinks to herself, “Hmmm…  well-dressed, handsome, sophisticated-looking man who appears to be fun and single!  AKA Desired Male Profile.”  So she waits for you to make a move.  And waits.  And waits.  And finally gets fed up to the point where she says, “I’ll just initiate something!”

So she asks your name to spark a conversation.  I’ve said it before, a woman (who you’ve never met) does not NEED to talk to you.  If she does, she’s made the choice to… and if she’s made the choice to, she’s interested in you.

So she throws herself at you, but you’re so buried in what this “guru” said, you don’t see that she is extremely interested in you.

You would do better to chuck —— in the garbage and work on your beliefs about yourself.  If you truly believed that women want you exactly as you are, you would be able to be successful.  Instead, you jump from one school to another, trying to “play chess on a football field”.

The truth is, you are good enough for all of the women you want.  The problem is, in your mind, you do not believe you are good enough.  Therefore, you compensate for your imagined lack and MANIFEST disinterest in the women.  But the disinterest is manufactured by your compensatory behaviors, not by who you are.

I recommend giving the “gurus” a rest for a little while.  You’re getting to buried in making “the right move” and it’s paralyzing you.

I will give you a metaphor:  Some people can enjoy alcohol – they have an occasional drink at social events and are able to have fun without drinking too much.  Other people cannot control their drinking – they are alcoholics and alcohol destroys their life.

In the same way, some people can listen to a “seduction guru”, take the useful information and put the material into perspective.  Other people cannot – they become led astray, using the material as a shield to prevent them from dealing with themselves and with intimacy.  They become confused and paralyzed by the material.

I feel like I’ve said all of this before.  Step up and when a woman is making moves, close the deal.

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Recently we’ve been get all sorts of great letters from the readers of the site. Sometimes someone will ask a great question and I’ll think to myself, “You know what?  I should just write a post about it since I’m sure a whole bunch of people have the same question.”

I am all for discussion and I am excited to see the rise in participation on this blog.  I think we’re starting to create a community here – one where guys help out other guys and freely discuss these topics, without all the marketing garbage and product hawking…  I think it’s refreshing.

Here are some recent letters on different topics that I think you’ll all enjoy:

Hi,

I would like to learn how to pick up women. I am living in NY and if you
know any website or link that can help me to find a community or something
to start into this art. I will appreciate.

I am a good looking guy but shy to reaction and I need help.

I hope you help me.

Best

H

Hey there H – New York is a great place to learn this stuff.  There are a lot of active, motivated and skilled men in your area (if you’re around the city) and I would encourage you to hang out with some of these guys.  Lots of major cities have forums and mailing lists where men in the local area get together to discuss the topic of meeting, picking up and dating women.  I would say check it out and find some guys who you are cool and who you can relate to.

Also, I would say read this site from the beginning to the present.  Read the posts and listen to the Field Audio Debriefs.  We haven’t been posting the Field Audio Debriefs lately since Legend and/or I have had a girl with us at the end of the night, but we recorded them to document our experiences on our nights out.  You will definitely hear a difference over time in the way that Legend and I come across as we spent more time in the field.

And feel free to comment on any posts where you might have a question – we love questions.  They help us make the site better.

Hope that helps.

I met a girl (26 y/o) I am also 26. We talked on for few days and we met. We
kissed in our first meeting in parking lot. Now she is asking me “are we
just friends or GF / BF?. Which in turn means she wants me to ask her out.
Now this is too soon. The kiss was mutual but initiated by me. Yes we both
enjoyed it and talked about it.I honesltly dont want to jump in to
relationship. Now this girl is a player. She is talking/flirting to other
guys.I know for a fact that we are both looking for fun. But my question is
why being GF/BF ? Is this only way we can go forward or should just play
along the friendship lines.
Question is how do I get laid. Whats the best way to go about it.

M

Legend’s response:

Hey man,

I’ll give you my take on what you’ve said.  I think she is asking you if you guys are GF / BF because she is looking for you to set and lead the interaction.  As a man women want us to be leaders and really drive the direction of the interaction, at least the vast majority of them do.

If you are saying she is a “player”  she may just be looking for you to make sure that you wont get attached or needy if you guys escalate and get sexual. This reaffirms my thoughts as you said you know she is looking for fun.  Then I would suggest that because you know she is looking for fun that her asking you that she is trying to figure out if you guys did hook up if you would take it too seriously.

From the information you gave me I would say that you should just be honest and tell her what you are thinking just like you told me.

I would say play along the friendship lines and as long as you are still flirting and if you keep sexually escalating you will be good.  As a guy we  can lets just be friends the girl and still sexually escalate and get laid.  We are in the position of power when we lead.

I hope this helps.  This is my understanding from the short information you told me.

Thanks for replying,
So now there are two girls. With both of them I have chatted on line. Met them and kissed them in our first meeting. One i have already slept with (23 y/o). I am going to keep her around so i dont get desperate with other women. BUT she did the same thing I kissed her next day she is asking me why did i kiss her. I told her i like her. And she said she cant do  it again unless we are together. I told her that we cant get in to relationship because this is so fast. She told me that “Wasnt me kissing her fast? So anyways I had to say that fine we are together. And I cant play along the friendship lines anymore with both girls. I guess If i were playing along with friendship lines. Things were slowing down. Any time I would make a move, I was going to get hit by friendship stick. And man I wanted to get laid since i just got out of 4 years of relationship. But still working on that 26 y/o…

Edge’s reply:

It sounds like you are having some issues with the frames of what’s happening.

What I mean is that she is taking the action of kissing and saying that it means download Two Mules for Sister Sara dvd War of the Worlds psp something.  As in, kissing = relationship.  She is setting the frame that if you kiss her, it means you are in a relationship with her and if you are not in a relationship with her, you can’t kiss her.  By saying that you’re together, you “bought into” her frame and her rules.  From a strategic standpoint, you don’t want to do it if it doesn’t jive with what you’re looking for at the moment.

To be good at holding your own frame and leading her, you need to be very very very clear about what you want and what your interactions mean.  For example, if I were in your shoes and all I wanted was to have a few girlfriends that I could call up for sex, I would not establish that I am in a relationship with any one of them.

This summer I had several girls I could call up at any time and hook up.  It was clear to them that none of them were my girlfriend, but we still had fun and everyone was fine the arrangement.  However, when a girl started to get whiny or demand that I make her my girlfriend, I had to let her go.  I was able to put it off for a little while, but sometimes there comes a point where you just need to let the other person walk away if she can’t deal with what you want the relationship to be.

An example to how I might have responded to her when she said, “Wasn’t kissing me fast?”  I would have said, “No… it was at exactly the right time to do it because I felt compelled to kiss you.  If I wasn’t insanely attracted to you, I wouldn’t be around…”  I came up with this response because I’m clear that I am with her for lust, not love.  Women can hook up with a guy based on lust, but don’t get all bent out of shape if she eventually leaves to find love.

Hope that’s helpful.

————–

OK, I’ve got some more mailbag response on the way, but that will be in an upcoming post.

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I think one of the things that sets this site apart from the majority of sites in this area (aside from having ZERO advertising/marketing bullshit) is the number of lay reports on our site.

I want to share my perspective on why we put up the lay reports in the first place and dispel some of the assumptions people have come at me with:

Are you bragging? I could see how someone would get the impression that I’m bragging, but I can sincerely tell you that I have no desire or intention to brag about my sex life. I am put-off by other people who brag about “scoring with women”. Further, in my personal life I share very very little about my dating and sex life, even with those I am closest to… I just don’t think it’s something that needs to be discussed in a social context.

Oh, well are you a chauvinist? Most of the people who have a problem with me posting lay reports are women. Yet every woman I’ve ever known EVER has gone into great detail with her girlfriends about her sexual exploits with men. Great detail – more than any men’s locker room-esque conversation I’ve ever heard. There is no stigma in our society for women to freely discuss their sex lives with other women.

These days, women simply do not know what it is like to have a stigma attached to discussing sex among their peers. Wasn’t always this way, but now it’s perfectly acceptable for a woman to grab three magazines off the rack with SEX SEX SEX – RELATIONSHIP ADVICE written all over the cover.

Sure, women do have a stigma attached to being a “slut”, but that has little to do with men and everything to do with women trying to keep a woman “in her place” on the social ladder.

All I am trying to do is share my experiences and discuss these topics. There’s no reason a stigma should be attached to sex, for men or for women.

But it look like you’re “objectifying women”! Ah yes, there’s that buzz-phrase. Objectifying women.

In my journal entries about my experiences with women, I can definitely see how my writing about the women I’m with comes across as cold and calculating.

Truth is, in real life I’m a very warm, connected, real person. I have tremendous consideration for the woman that I’m with and for her feelings (sometimes to my deficit) and I certainly would never view another human being, man or woman, as an object. It’s important to me that both the woman and I have a great, unforgettable, amazing experience that we both look back on and feel good about.

If you’re so connected and caring, why all this focus on sex and ‘lay reports’ then? OK, well you have a point there.

I feel like I am selling our audience short by not really including how I am with women once they’re in my life. I post the lay reports because they illustrate how I met a woman and how the relationship turned into something romantic (as opposed to a “just friends” situation).

A lot of focus in the “seduction community” is on getting a woman into bed as quickly as possible. Personally, I could care less how quickly I get into bed with a woman – I know if there is a spark and we’re both attracted, it will happen eventually… there’s no hurry. But typically it happens quickly because frankly, we both really want it to… There’s a dance involved with it and I love the dance. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.

But after I’ve had that initial hook-up, I don’t just cast the girl aside. With just about every girl, we hang out and spend real quality time together. We go out to movies, dinners, events, bars, art shows, etc. We have fun together and enjoy life. I think that’s a great thing and I think spending time with a great girl is an amazing part of life… there’s way way more to being good with women than just sex. So I think I really need to write more about my lifestyle and what I do with women when we’re spending time together.

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It’s been a little over 13 weeks since Legend and I started going and I have had tremendous success so far. I don’t want to get into all the details, but let’s just say that I have met many wonderful women and have had some pretty great experiences so far. So people are starting to ask me what routines and such I’ve been doing to be successful…

I think what is more important is WHO is the person “doing” the pick up. How do I live through my life? Yeah, technique and actions are important to talk about. I think it’s essential to talk about who I am now – the person I’ve grown into.

When I am at my best (and, in turn, when my interactions go the best), I am being this person:

I live in the moment. I am totally present to the moment I am in. My mind isn’t somewhere else and it definitely isn’t analyzing anything.

I love the moment. Wherever I am, whatever the situation, I do my best to fully love it. I am grateful for it. Frankly, we should all be grateful. You could be one of the millions of people on Earth living in a hut… If you’re reading these words, you have luxuries people couldn’t have dreamt of 100 years ago.

I truly enjoy other areas of life. When I was in high school, I learned to play guitar and piano, but eventually stopped playing and singing. After college, I decided to pick it back it, but this time to love music… to go all the way with my playing and singing. Now, I don’t perform for others– I do it for myself. But my point here is that when I’m playing and singing, I go all the way with it. I immerse myself in the experience and I love it fully. When I’m listening to music, I really love the experience deeply. When I talk to a woman about music, she can feel that.

No negativity. I do not indulge in thoughts that don’t “feel good”. No self-doubt, no self-criticism, no guilt, no regret. Outwardly, no criticism, no attacking, no judgments, no hate, no jealousy. If I’m going to judge a situation, it’s going to be in a positive frame – optimistic. Legend will tell you – I am relentlessly optimistic.

It’s all good. Since I’m enjoying every moment, in the moment, I’m attached to whatever happens. I’m getting to learn and participate in life. All outcomes are great – I play the game and drive in a certain direction (towards hooking up), but simply being able to participate in the game is something to be grateful for… so I am.

What do you guys think? What is your experience like when you are out in the world, meeting new women?

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I received an e-mail from someone who’s been following along my activities. In the e-mail, he is talking about the different ways he’s suffered in the past with women. We got into a discussion about focusing on the past – I would like to share my response with you all:

As I progressed in my own self-development, I focused less and less and less on the past.

At first, I was addicted to it. I indulged in thinking about painful memories or how I was wronged or how things went wrong and what I felt it meant about my potential. It became so painful and obstructive to where I wanted to go that I decided that it was a habit I had to break. But what was I going to replace it with?

Simply put… I replace it with continuing to build a new reality for myself. I continue to act into new, empowering frames where there used to be a weak or unhelpful one. When I have recognized a pattern in myself of acting in a way that does not generate the responses I want, I ask myself, “Under what circumstances (aka In what frame) would I act in a way that would get me what I want?” Once I have that answer, I live into that frame.

This is where I rest my attention nearly always when I’m in moments of self-reflection. I do not feed the habit of focusing on memories that do not feel good or that do not involve things I want more of in my life – I refuse to do it.

A buddy of mine who has had literally decades of success recommends being the profile of the alpha male, 1) highlighting the qualities of you that naturally fit the profile already, 2) cultivating and strengthening/developing other areas that fit the profile and 3) completely eliminating those that work against the profile. What I am describing here is a pathway to doing just that.

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